Name: Tech Live 2023: Is Crypto Dead?
Uploaded: 2023-10-20T19:26:00Z
Duration: 7 min 24 s
Description: It's been a rough year for the crypto industry. But supporters say the sector is down not out. Financier Anthony Scaramucci and crypto-compliance advocate Charlie Shrem shared their thoughts on the opportunities and pitfalls facing the industry at the WSJ's Tech Live. Zoe Thomas hosts. Photo: Nikki Ritcher for the Wall Street Journal

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It's been a rough year for the crypto industry. But supporters say the sector is down not out. Financier Anthony Scaramucci and crypto-compliance advocate Charlie Shrem shared their thoughts on the opportunities and pitfalls facing the industry at the WSJ's Tech Live. Zoe Thomas hosts. Photo: Nikki Ritcher for the Wall Street Journal

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Tech Live 2023: Is Crypto Dead?  

Zoe: Welcome to "Tech News Briefing." It's Friday, October 20th. I'm Zoe Thomas for "The Wall Street Journal." Anthony Scaramucci, the founder of SkyBridge Capital and the former White House communications director was at the "WSJ's" Tech Live to talk about cryptocurrency. The financier is a digital currency optimist and took the stage with crypto-compliance advocate, Charlie Shrem, to discuss the industry's current downturn and its future. Here are highlights from their conversation with Gunjan Banerji, the lead writer for "The Wall Street Journal's" Live Markets coverage.

I know we've all been following the horrific and disgraceful attacks on Israel and the situation unfolding in the Middle East. "The Wall Street Journal" has reported that crypto exchange, Garantex, has been a major channel through which terrorist organizations, such as Hamas, have been transferring money. Anthony, do you have a problem with that?

Well, no, of course I have a problem with that, but I don't think that's crypto-specific. Generally, I think that we are focused on that 'cause we have a lot of crypto skeptics and naysayers, so yes, I absolutely have a problem with it. I think Charlie can talk about this better than me, but I think there's ways that we can handle that and there's ways we can regulate and go after those people. 'Cause of the Blockchain's transparency, this stuff is easy to track. Isn't it easier for bad actors to transfer crypto than cash, though? Charlie?

I would disagree because when you're in cash, you're in cash. You can take that cash anywhere in the world and do whatever you want with it, no matter what currency you have. With crypto, once you're in crypto, it's like a toll booth. As long as we regulate those toll booths of getting in and out of crypto and we have regulated onshore exchanges in America that we trust that do proper KYC and compliance, we wouldn't have issues like that. We wouldn't have people, we wouldn't have liquidity in those shady exchanges anymore. All the liquidity would be, you know, onshore here in the US or through our partners in the EU.

I do wanna move to that because one of the most trusted exchanges, FTX, collapsed last year and, you know, moving to something else in the news, Sam Bankman-Fried's criminal trial is happening right now in New York City. Anthony, you invested with FTX.

Anthony: I just wanna say, thank God I'm here and not at the criminal trial.

Right.

But yes, go ahead.

Well, you were on a list of people that would potentially testify. How do you see this shaping out?

Well first of all, I wasn't close enough to the blast zone so that's one of the obvious reasons why I'm not testifying. Point is-

Is there another FTX waiting to happen in finance? Charlie, what do you think?

There will always be centralized points of failure within Bitcoin and crypto that will be big elephants in the room that we have to worry about, from Mt. Gox... There were so many other smaller ones in between that no one remembers. FTX was a big one, but there's still a lot of smaller ones around FTX, too. Three Arrows Capital and then you had Celsius, Voyager, and all the likes. I mean, there were so many, and unfortunately, the longer Bitcoin and crypto continues to succeed, there will be more.

But it sounds like you're saying, yes, another FTX could happen, which means a lot of customers lose money. Is that what you're saying?

We'll never be able to prevent more things, more failures. We'll never be able to prevent, in any industry, we'll never be able to prevent more mistakes from happening, but I think as an industry, if we ask the right questions and we don't forget what happened, we'll be able to succeed and we need to remove centralized finance. The whole point of Bitcoin and crypto is to hold your own keys, but at the same time, when you have custody, there's a system of checks and balances in place. There, everyone was just putting all their money in one spot. And the last thing I'm gonna say is, if we had clear regulations, especially accounting rules, where the inventory of crypto that was held on the FTX books, if there were clear rules about how that money needs to be segregated and not kept commingled, there are no rules when it comes to crypto right now, when it comes to our regulations. We need better rules and regulations.

So you're asking a really good question. We're always gonna have people that are bad actors in our society. But you know, my grandmother had an expression, you know, too good is no good, but too safe is no good. You want to be in a society of innovators and you want to be in a society of risk-takers.

Yep.

And you want to understand that there's vagaries to taking those risks.

So Charlie, a lot of retail investors were burned by crypto. Why would they turn around and buy a crypto ETF?

It's funny, 'cause everyone who's ever made wealth in Bitcoin or crypto always lost some wealth before they made it. You have to learn how to lose money in Bitcoin and crypto in order to learn how to make money in Bitcoin and crypto.

That sounds terrifying.

But it's the only way. It's unfortunate, I hate to say it, but anyone who comes to me and says, "Charlie thankfully this happened with Mt. Gox or this FTX, I'm learning how bankruptcy law works now." People are selling their claims, they're learning how all that works. A lot of people who held onto claims, who bought other people's claims, are making money now. I know people who bought claims from FTX for like 40 cents on the dollar and ow they're gonna get 70 cents.

Anthony, this industry did really well when there was a lot of speculation behind it. What happens when that momentum is gone, when people don't wanna trade meme stocks, when people aren't, you know, as Charlie said, throwing money at at all these random projects?

Well, I think it will shrink and consolidate, but you have to ask yourself the following question, what does this technology do? And ultimately, it's a delayering mechanism for a society. If I can go peer-to-peer, as an example, if you own a restaurant and you can avoid the 3.5% charge from American Express, well, your margins go up by 15 to 20% because your net gross margin is probably 15% on a restaurant. The El Salvadorians, who were in New York for the United Nations General Assembly meeting explained to me that they see a potential $400 million savings from their expats who live in the United States giving money back to mom and dad in El Salvador from a wallet-to- wallet transfer and avoiding the 10% charge.

Charlie: It's so brilliant.

Of a MoneyGram or a Western Union. So if you stop and you think about the wonderful ways that this technology is gonna delayer the society and take costs out of the society the same way the internet did with Web One, there's a very, very bright future even if there's consolidation.

It looks like we're out of time. Thank you so much, Anthony.

It's great to be here.

And Charlie for being here with me today.

Thank you. Thank you, guys. Great to be here.

Zoe: That was the WSJ's Gunjan Banerji speaking with Anthony Scaramucci and Charlie Shrem. All right, that's it for "Tech News Briefing." Today's show is produced by Julie Chang. I'm your host, Zoe Thomas. Our supervising producer is Melanie Roy. Our development producer is Aisha Al Muslim. Our deputy editors are Scott Salaway and Chris Zinsley. And Falana Patterson is the "Wall Street Journal's" head of news audio. We'll be back with a new show on Monday. Thanks for listening.

WSJ’s tech podcast featuring breaking news, scoops and tips on tech innovations and policy debates, plus exclusive interviews with movers and shakers in the industry.