Name: Verizon CEO Says Company Must Become 'Nimble,' Think Like a Startup
Uploaded: 2025-11-17T10:00:00Z
Duration: 27 min 17 s
Description: Dan Schulman, one month into his role as Verizon CEO, details his vision for the company as well as what he sees as three concurrent waves that will transform the tech industry: AI, quantum computing, and humanoid robotics. Recorded Nov. 11, 2025.

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Dan Schulman, one month into his role as Verizon CEO, details his vision for the company as well as what he sees as three concurrent waves that will transform the tech industry: AI, quantum computing, and humanoid robotics. Recorded Nov. 11, 2025. Photo: Ivan Apfel for WSJ

https://m.wsj.net/video/20251114/705f93fa-bd16-4edc-abd0-3018cc3e4d40/1/hls/manifest-hd-wifi.m3u8

Dan Schulman, one month into his role as Verizon CEO, details his vision for the company as well as what he sees as three concurrent waves that will transform the tech industry: AI, quantum computing, and humanoid robotics. Recorded Nov. 11, 2025.

Verizon CEO Says Company Must Become 'Nimble,' Think Like a Startup

Culturally, the organization needs to become less bureaucratic. It needs to be more nimble; it needs to be more agile; it needs to be way more scrappy; it needs to think of itself as a startup with a ton of great assets to leverage.

I wanna start talking about technology because, you know, you've spent a lot of time getting your arms around it. You've seen multiple waves of technology changing your career. How does this compare to previous waves?

I think this is a time, for all of us, that is unprecedented. I've never seen technology change as fast as it is right now. I think there are basically three concurrent waves that are about to crash down. You talk about AI; that's one of 'em, obviously. But unless you're really in the AI community, it's hard to imagine how fast that is happening. The models are basically doing a step-function improvement every two months. So, the models that we're using today are the worst models that we'll ever use. At six months from now, they'll be massively different. And we're right on this cusp right now where, you mentioned it, you know, the models are still hallucinating, but less so. But six months from now, a year from now, they'll be 300% to 600% better than they are, and they will start to transform everything. It's my informed view that we hit AGI in the next two to four years. And I think it's more towards the sooner side than the later.

Wow. Wow. Two-

I find it hard to imagine, actually, that we don't.

And define, in your terms, what is AGI?

Machines being able to do everything we do better than we do. That's basically how I define it. So, I think it's just hard to imagine. The models are just getting better and better and better and better, faster and faster. And so, I think you hit AGI in the next two to four years. And I think most people in the AI community would admit that if you talk to them off stage. The second wave that's gonna hit that will compound what's happening with AI is quantum. Quantum is maybe less in the news, but I think it's possible by 2030 that we get to data centers that have a million fault-resistant qubits. If that happens, then you basically redefine everything in the compute model. And if you are not using quantum as your underlying basis for your algorithms, you lose. It's as simple as that. And there won't be that many of these firms that will be offering that kind of capacity on a quantum level; and you better know who they are, and you better be positioned with them, because it'll be a rare commodity to be able to do runtime on those quantum computers. Those quantum computers will start to power AI models that really are compute hogs; you know, they want the more compute they can get, the better. So, you'll see AI and quantum intersect and just take off. Not that many people talk about quantum.

Third way.

And the third one is humanoid robotics.

Wow.

And humanoid robotics are happening as rapidly as anything else right now. There's some more clumsy prototypes out there, but they are just, the amount of money going into that is phenomenal. And so, I think, you know, as we think about, "Well, you know, certain jobs are safe because, you know, AI can't do the manual labor of it." I think, when humanoid robotics occur, and I think, again, that's in the next five, maybe seven years or so.

By which you mean robots that can basically do whatever humans do on the job; physical labor.

Yeah, but again, stronger and never get tired-

Stronger and better.

And all that kind of thing. So, those are the three big things that I see happening. And, you know, again, it's the future. So, you can always reserve-

It's not much.

The right to be wrong about the future because it's the future, but I would say that is the most likely scenario.

But Dan, I feel like one of the things we've discovered in the last year; we haven't discovered, we've known this for a long time, is you've got human-level AI in two years, potentially. You've got quantum in five years, potentially. You've got human-level, better than human-level robots within five years. But organizations, human organizations that just don't move that fast. I mean, getting human organizations to adopt to change at this speed turns out to be really, really hard.

Yeah, I think that's the biggest issue, actually, will be culturally how do we and organizations adopt to the change, and can we adopt to the change? And I think that's our job as directors and CEOs, to really push hard on that. I see some CEOs embracing it, and I see others not. I think you need to have metrics around it. I think, if you don't embrace AI, and AI is really gonna be two things. It'll be an efficiency tool, and it'll be a value prop tool. So, it'll be both. A lot of people focus on the efficiency part. I think AI can redefine product offerings and how you show up in front of customers. God bless. But culturally, this is the biggest issue. Also, like, nobody wants to really embrace AI if they think their job is gonna go away as a result of that. So, it's very hard to do inside a company. But, and then you were mentioning something with the previous speaker that, I have to say, is probably wrong going forward, which is the way we think about boardrooms now and companies is we used to, the biggest companies, the most successful, like, we prided ourselves on collegiality in the boardroom as one of the most important things, how we get along in the boardroom. I think the most successful companies these days are more argumentative. They are challenging, and that is hard for all of us because, you know, we're all human beings. We have amygdalas, we go into fight or flight mechanism easily, and we need to actually tone that down. We need to basically not have the hair on the back of our necks stand up when somebody challenges you. We just need to actually listen intently, think about it, debate it, be willing to make mistakes. We can't be bureaucratic. We can't steer the boat by the wake of the boat anymore, because that is probably the biggest impediment to future success. So, I think all forms of the culture within a boardroom and within a company absolutely need to change in these next five years, because these next five years are gonna be like nothing we have seen before.

I wanna come back to that in a minute because I do think that's the nut of the conversations we're having here today. But I'd like to talk a little bit about Verizon. That's your job, that... You have great long history in telecom companies. As an outside observer, in my experience, the telecom companies have not been the most innovative; they were traditionally monopolies. So, in some ways, they're among the hardest types of organizations to get moving at the speed of technology. Why'd you do this?

Well, I was extremely happily retired, I will say. And I felt like I was a role model for retirement.

Alan: We'll talk about the ranch later.

Yeah, I've been a cowboy for the last two years on our ranch, literally, riding horses every day, roping. I'm the worst roper in all of Montana, by the way. You know, moving cattle, thinking about beef prices and, you know, it's pretty different right now. So, but my view was... And, you know, I was the lead director at Verizon, and I've been on the board for seven years, so I'm not unaware of the issues that Verizon, as well as the opportunities ahead, but I felt like we were at a real inflection point and I also felt that the company had the ability to make that pivot. If I didn't feel that, I wouldn't have taken the job. But it's going to take a lot of hard work, a lot of hard decisions, a lot of cultural realignment from being really predominantly a network-engineering company to being a company that's gotta be obsessed with what customers want, has to be obsessed with innovation, needs to redefine the value proposition fundamentally, and do all of that in a fiscally responsible manner. So, yeah, there's a lot to get done.

On your earnings call, you said it needed a full reboot. I'm gonna ask you to define that, but let me just ask, I promise you I'm not taking names. I'm just curious. How many of you are directors of a company that you think needs a full reboot? Raise your hand. A fair number of hands up.

Liars.

You think it's more than that?

You all need reboot.

So, what does a full reboot look like in this crazy technological time we're living in?

Well, I truly do believe, like, all of our companies need full reboots because we're gonna go into a world of change right now, and we're gonna have new competition coming who are not afraid to utilize the technologies. It costs, you know, fractions of what it used to, to start companies. You'll have companies with a hundred people that will be doing multiple billions of dollars of revenues easily, easily. So, I think, from my perspective, what I meant by that is, culturally, the organization needs to become less bureaucratic; it needs to be more nimble; it needs to be more agile; it needs to be way more scrappy; it needs to think of itself as a startup with a ton of great assets to leverage. The thing about big companies is, first of all, there tends to be a lot of pride in a big company because you're a big company, because you were successful. But that pride gets in the way, because most big companies think about how do you become, like, 10% more successful next year? You know? And, like, how do we drive EPS up 10% or something like that? And that's a combination of, "Let's grow our revenues by, like, 6% and cut our cost structure by 4%," or whatever it may be. And not that we can do this, but I think, instead of 10%, you have to think about 10x. Like, how do we improve things by 10x? How do we do things 10x faster? How do we do things for 1/10 the cost of what we were doing? Not that you'll get there, but you have to bust out of that mindset of incremental improvement in a time where it is not incremental improvement around you. And I always say, if the pace of change external to a company is greater than the pace of change internal, you're in big trouble. And think about how fast things are moving right now and how fast the companies that you're either running, or on the board of, are moving. And that's why you need to redefine yourselves culturally, product-wise, value proposition. You need to look at skill-sets, and you need to be somewhat ruthless about it.

How much time do you have to do that? A lot of company, a lot of people in this room are on the boards of publicly traded companies. Verizon has had, what, three quarters of declining revenues. How much patience do the markets have for you to do your reboot?

Yeah, first of all, it hasn't had three quarters of declining revenue, but.

Alan: Just subscriber.

Because we're on the record, I just need to-

No, no, you can correct the numbers.

Subscriber, yeah.

Subscriber revenues.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what I meant.

No subscriber numbers, I think, is what you meant. Yeah, but anyway. Regardless.

A certain level of humility is required for this job.

Look, I think every company is under pressure to redefine itself and prove to its shareholders and to its customers and to its employees that they have a vision of where they wanna go. And I think, if you have a good vision, I mean, look, I think the role of leadership is three things. It's define reality. And, like, that was part of what I was trying to define upfront. Like, these technological changes are going to happen. They're gonna have profound impact on every function in the business. Every business, they're gonna have profound effects on our economy and on our democracy. Like, it's going to happen. So, at least it's most likely that it's gonna happen. And that's a scary reality for a lot of people. But that's the age we live in. We live in the age of technological changes. It's the age that we're in. So, like, as Shakespeare said, "Nothing is or is not, but thinking makes it so." So, like, it is. Now, how you think about it will define your attitude around it. Then you gotta, like, figure out, like, what your vision is. Like, what is the mountaintop look like? What is the inspiring vision that you're trying to create? And then, the third job, which is quite hard, is what is the path between reality, towards that vision? That's the three things that, I think, a good leader needs to do. And I think, if you can define all those well, you have time to go do that. You probably have several years to go do it. If you don't, people can get frustrated quite quickly in today's environment if there's no real path that they believe in. Everything is not about, you know, this quarter's results. It's like, what does the future look like, and do your employees and your shareholders believe in that future?

You were, as you said earlier, you were lead director at Verizon, good friends with your predecessor.

Yep.

We had a long talk about succession earlier this morning, at least a group of these folks did. How does that work? I mean, how did that feel to be in the position of being lead director and becoming the successor?

Well, I've gone through a lot of succession in my tenure as a board director. I think, as you mentioned, it's the most important and the most difficult part of being a board director, 'cause it's full of emotion. I mean, it doesn't even matter if it's perfect. It's still full of emotion. And, you know, I've seen a ton of CEOs kill off, you know, their princes, you know, in their organization because, you know, they're wanna make sure that they're the person. I've seen all sorts of things. I remember when I was the lead director at Symantec, you know, which is a cybersecurity software company for those of you who don't know. And we had to go through four CEO successions. And I remember being at a small dinner with the CEO of Symantec, myself as the lead director, a couple of others. And Jamie Dimon was leading the thing, and he said to the CEO, "You can't feel comfortable with Dan next to you. He's, like, let go of the last three CEOs." And I was like, "Don't feel comfortable." But I think there are, sometimes it's good to bring in outside people. And, you know, we all know who the outside people are and the inside people, and there's the hit-by-the-bus scenario that you have. I think, for us at Verizon, you know, we felt like we had, Hans has done an amazing at a certain chapter for us with Verizon. I think he had really done a super job in getting kind of our network to where it needed to be. And the next phase was about really customer centricity. How do we leverage that new ways? How do we leverage AI? And, you know, that ticked a lot of the boxes that I had. As you mentioned, I know the industry inside and out. There are some of you who are in the audience who know the industry inside and out. I feel very comfortable in this seat. I'm not afraid, at this point in my life, to make really hard decisions and drive the company forward. I think I've been massively transparent about it. And these are, like, things that, inside most big companies, you know, are unspoken, but I've been quite clear about it. You know, we have not performed for our shareholders. We have lost market share consistently, and that cannot continue, going forward.

All right. I wanna get you to talk a little bit about leadership. You were a CEO for two decades, basically. What are you proudest of during your time as CEO?

I think it was just kind of probably the relationship and the reputation I have with employees there. I mean, I try to be very authentic, very transparent. My daughter once asked me, like, "Are you the same at work as you are at home?" And I said, "I am, except I don't tickle anybody at work."

Alan: It's a good thing. You wouldn't have made it this far.

She said the same thing to me. And I think, like, the number-one trait that I would look for in a leader is humility. Because here's the thing, like, you either are humble or you will be forced to be humble. Like, you have no choice.

But that's a tricky thing. And we talked about this this morning. Harry, thank you for raising that question. Yeah, sure, as CEO, you need to be humble because you need to be able to take in information, but you also have to know when the time comes to say, "This is what we're doing. Get with the program."

Yeah, of course.

It's a hard... that's not an easy thing to do, is it?

No, it's not a hard thing.

Alan: Really?

Yeah. I mean, you know, when you've heard enough.

You've been humble for long enough.

You know, for... yeah. You show respect, you listen, and then you lead with quiet confidence. You know, I've done mixed martial arts my entire life, so for 50 years, I've been practicing mixed martial arts.

Alan: Will you give us a demonstration?

I will gladly do that on you, yes. Gladly.

Okay, we'll put that off. And the thing about martial arts, I wish everybody in the world did martial arts because you think about it as fighting, and yeah, you clearly know how to take care of yourself in various situations. But it's really about learning. It's about quiet confidence. It's about checking your ego. It's about, like, the best way to win a fight is to not get into a fight, and that's not easy. You know, when somebody's in front of you insulting you, pushing, you, insulting, you know, your wife or whatever it may be. Like, everything inside me is like, "I'm gonna kick your ass right now." And that is everything wrong about reacting that way. And so, I think being a leader involves being humble, like in martial arts. You never stop learning, like, 'cause you never know enough.

But you're ready for the moment.

But you're ready for the moment, and you have a quiet confidence about you, and people want to follow that, and they respect that. So, I don't think being humble and having quite confidence or in conflict, I think they go hand in hand.

Love it. Great answer. We have very little time left, but you're dealing with a group of people for whom the relationship between the board and the CEO is critical. You've been on both sides of that relationship for a long time now. You've seen a lot of different relationships. What's your advice to them on how to make it work well?

Well, the first thing I would say to the CEOs, and, you know, I've been in the job for a month as president, I've already written three pretty lengthy memos to the board on what I'm seeing. You know, I don't want them to be surprised about things that are going on. I want them to be fully in line with what I'm doing, and I think, like, that communication back and forth is essential. The second a CEO starts getting defensive, that is a red flag, immediately a red flag, because the thing about a board, a good board, is that it should be really engaged. Like, that's why you have a board. You have a board to say not, "Let me show you my perfect presentation. It's perfect." Because there is no perfect presentation. We may present it perfectly, but there were debates around every single page in there. And, like, my view as the CEO should be telling the board, "Here are my fears." Not, like, being like vulnerable or whatever. Like, "Here's the fear. Here's the debate we had over this issue. What do you think, based on all of your experiences?" And I think real collaboration, and that means, like, challenge. But nobody should be, like, getting upset about being challenged. Like, I always tell, like, when I mentor CEOs, embrace your board, and have your board embrace you back, because that's the power of a great board.

Dan, fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time from your incredibly busy life to share that.

The WSJ Leadership Institute Presents: Leaders. A new podcast series bringing you revealing conversations with top executives shaping business today. Hosted by Alan Murray, president of the WSJ Leadership Institute, the series goes beyond headlines to explore how leadership really works in times of upheaval, transformation, and uncertainty. Our first episode was released Monday, Sept. 22, at 5:00 a.m. ET, with new episodes every other Monday.