Name: NATO Facing Crucial Test in Ankara Over Trump Loyalty Demands
Uploaded: 2026-07-02T16:00:00Z
Duration: 8 min 30 s
Description: WSJ’s Gordon Fairclough interviews NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte about the impact of shifting U.S. defense commitments in Europe and whether Iran will be on the agenda at the Ankara summit.

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WSJ’s Gordon Fairclough interviews NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte about the impact of shifting U.S. defense commitments in Europe and whether Iran will be on the agenda at the Ankara summit.

https://m.wsj.net/video/20260702/200c3cdd-36fe-4f97-afb5-3b922e780c19/1/hls/manifest-hd-wifi.m3u8

NATO Facing Crucial Test in Ankara Over Trump Loyalty Demands 

The leaders of NATO's 32 member countries are getting ready to meet in Ankara next week for a summit. The aim is to show unity, but behind the scenes, there's nervousness about potential US forced drawdowns and lagging defense production. I'm at NATO headquarters in Brussels to ask Secretary General Mark Rutte how he plans to smooth tensions between President Trump and European allies, and whether Iran will be on the agenda. Let's jump right in. So you've got the NATO summit coming up next week

Yes.

In Ankara. President Trump will be there. You'll also have a bunch of European leaders with whom the president has been quite publicly at odds. What do you think the atmosphere is gonna be like?

Good. We have seen the G7 two weeks ago, which was a big success, was a joint statement. I think there's a positive story, and the positive story is that Europe is really stepping up, and this is exactly what the president asked from the Europeans. Of course, Europeans are stepping up not only because of President Trump, but also because of the Russian threat, the war in Ukraine. But Trump was very clear that he expected Europe to take a bigger share of the burden and to equalize the spending with the US, and it's exactly what step by step is not happening.

Will Iran be on the agenda?

It is not formally on the agenda, as Iran, of course, is outside NATO territory, but, yeah, of course, freedom of navigation what's happening there, the fact that the American president has successfully degraded Iranian's nuclear capability. Always been a longstanding position of NATO that Iran should not get its hands on the nuclear capability, and the fact that that has been degraded now to an extent where we are all safer, I think we can thank the president for that and compliment him for that.

When you saw the president in Washington last week, he talked about wanting to see loyalty from the allies.

We're so loyal to them. We're always fighting for them. We have thousands of troops all over Europe. In Germany, we have 50,000 troops. And then you want a little, give us a little nudge, give us a little kiss. We don't want much. And they say, "No, we can't do it. "

Do you think NATO does have a role to play in the conflict, maybe in opening the strait?

Well, when it comes to NATO as such, if we can be helpful, we will always be helpful, but I think it is more like individual allies who are helping here. So what we are seeing is that the French and the British brought together a whole coalition of countries, many of them NATO allies, some from outside NATO. Pre-positioning key gear close to theater, for example, demining capabilities close to theater.

I don't think we're gonna need much help, but I don't think it's a bad idea to have a ship or two up here from a few countries. You'd be a great country to do it.

That might come up next week, it might not come up, but I think this principle of freedom of navigation, of course, is extremely important. NATO always willing to be helpful, but I think this French-British initiative is important here.

And how important would you say bases in NATO territory have been to the conduct of the American war?

I think crucial. Europe, again, was one big power protection platform for the United States. We have seen between four and 5,000 US planes taking off from European bases in those six, seven weeks 'til the ceasefire in April, and I think that has been very important.

Did the US brief NATO before the war started?

I can never mention to you what we discussed yes or no behind closed doors. Clearly, the president himself made public that he wanted to maintain an element of surprise when the war started.

We didn't need any help at all. I was more curious than anything else. So I said to Pete, "Let's see if they'd actually come." So we asked them to come, and they weren't there for us. So we spent, it's stupid that they weren't.

Transatlantic relations are probably at their lowest point in decades. Some people say since the Suez crisis in the 1950s. Is that your sense?

No.

And do you think it's affecting the alliance?

I don't think that at all, accept at all. No, no, no. Of course, you are totally entitled to ask me the question. No, I have a totally different view. I think they are very strong. What was the problem? So we had NATO 1.0, which was the NATO of the Cold War, strong, and then we had NATO 2.0 after the Cold War, which still had an important role to play, for example, when it came to Afghanistan, but also, countries in Europe basically starting to draw down their defense spending. And now we have NATO 3.0, where the Europeans are at a staggering rate stepping up. So we see now in two years, 250 billion US dollars in extra defense spending from Canada and Europe, which is unequaled, which is massive, which is at the limit of what you can spend more in one or two years because you still have to find the men and women in uniform, you still have to make sure that the defense industrial output is there. So we are basically reaching the absorption capacity levels. When Rutte talks about an absorption problem, there are two big issues. The first is industrial capacity, the ability of defense companies to make all the arms and equipment that are now needed. The second is to recruit and train enough soldiers to expand the armed forces. Both take time.

Take, for example, Germany. So we agreed, so they get a couple of years to get there, because you cannot spend it in one year because you have an absorption problem. But Germany, for example-

You can't. You can't.

So what are the challenges going forward here as you try to turn this money. You know, folks have taken the budget call seriously, and there is a lot of money, turning that into weapons and into stronger militaries.

Yes. This is the key issue we have to discuss next week. Now that the money is coming in, the defense industrial base is producing more that we really accelerate that pace. The Hague a year ago was about promises. This summer, when it comes to the money, when it comes to the defense industry output, when it comes to support for Ukraine, it's about delivery. And the shift in mindset taking place now is that defense has to be core and center of what we are doing, because this is about the first task of a government, which is to keep our part of the world and our country safe. One billion people living in NATO territory.

We've seen the US talk about drawing down conventional forces in Europe.

Obviously, the United States continues to have global commitments that it needs to meet in terms of our force deployment, and that constantly requires us to reexamine where we put troops.

What's the challenge for NATO to ensure that the European allies are ramping up and not losing deterrence?

What the US announced a couple of weeks ago when it comes to this so-called NATO force model, which is a planning tool, is they said, "Listen, if there will be a two theater war, let's assume there is a conflict in Indo-Pacific, and a conflict in Europe, we want to make sure that whatever we promise Europe we will do as United States, we can deliver. It's still considerable what they will do, but what they had to draw down, already being backfilled by Europeans or in the process of being dealt with, and in some cases, some lot more work to be done. But it makes us all stronger that we now know exactly what we can control.

We started the year with dust-up over Greenland.

All we're asking for is to get Greenland, including right title and ownership, because you need the ownership to defend it.

Do you think that's dented the confidence of the Europeans in the US as a reliable security partner?

You will always have in an alliance like NATO discussions and debates, and sometimes you will have a tough debate. This is an alliance of democracies. It will be a bad sign if we all come together, have vanilla meetings, basically not disagreeing at all, because this is what the Chinese and Russians do, this is what dictatorships do. In our case, we are democracies. We are working together. We constantly try to find the best in each other. And then in the end, we come together again. And sometimes you'll have these tough debates, but then you find a way forward, and we will absolutely see that happening at my convention next week.

Trump Loyalty Demands Set Stage for Tense NATO Summit

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